They are truelly wonderful!!!
What do you guys think??? (i think if you search for "Askum Ethiopia" through your browser you'll find some pics,etc about them) peace,love an joy in life to all of you!!! :-)
What do you guys think??? (i think if you search for "Askum Ethiopia" through your browser you'll find some pics,etc about them) peace,love an joy in life to all of you!!! :-)
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Atlanta
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Re: Any body scene those 7 original Coptic monuments in Ancient Askum Ethiopia???
Tue, January 20, 2004 - 8:34 PMI think they are beautiful and it is a shame that too few people know about the Axumite civilization. I have been doing some research on Aksum, their trade relations with Rome, and their connection to the Byzantine Empire. Few people also know that the Axumite king gave safe haven to Mohammed and others of his party when they were driven from the Arabian penninsula. And for that the people of Abbysinia (as Ethiopia was known in Arabic) were excluded from the Jihad. If you want to know more about Aksum, Gondor, and other glorious capitals from the Ethopian empires, check out one of the books by Stuart Munro-Hay. Oh, there are also some gorgeous carved churches in Lalibela (spelling?) although they date from a later period than does Aksum. -
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Unsu...
Re: Any body scene those 7 original Coptic monuments in Ancient Askum Ethiopia???
Fri, January 23, 2004 - 11:36 AMI remember this. I'm Orthodox Christian now but I was married to a Muslim a few years before I became Orthodox. I learned SO MUCH from that relationship and one of the things he told me was that the ancient Christians helped save Islam my giving safe haven. This must have been who he was talking about. Thanks for bringing it up and reminding me of that conversation. It was very enlightening. sabrina/sophia/bohemefem.
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Re: Any body scene those 7 original Coptic monuments in Ancient Askum Ethiopia???
Fri, January 23, 2004 - 10:22 PMOh yeah, also did anybody also get into the rituals and the connection story with the Queen of Sheba and Haile Salassie,the last ethiopian King????? (minalik,her son from solomon) -
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Re: Any body scene those 7 original Coptic monuments in Ancient Askum Ethiopia???
Mon, January 26, 2004 - 5:19 PMYeah, it is a medieval Ethiopian story, written down in the Kebra Negast.
It tells of the encounter between the Queen of Sheba (maybe of the Sabateans, South Arabians, in what is now Yemen) and Solomon. Their oldest son is reputed to have taken the Ark of the Covenant from Jerusalem to Aksum, the ancient capital of what is now Ethiopia. There is, of course, no way to verify this as no one is permitted to enter the Holy of Holies of the Cathedral in Aksum, however, the story arose in the 12th century, some 1100 years after the temple in Jerusalem was destroyed. But, despite the questionable veracity of the claims, they have served as an important basis for Ethiopian Christianity and political legitimacy since then. Also, the themese were picked up by Ras Tafari, who of course is influential in Afro-centric Christianity most notably associated with Jamaica. The Kebra Negast is so important to all of this that one of the recent translations, albeit not the best, is done by Ziggy Marley. -
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Re: Any body scene those 7 original Coptic monuments in Ancient Askum Ethiopia???
Tue, January 27, 2004 - 8:43 PMYeah,thats what i'm talking about!!! (smile)
I will say this,from Spiritual experience based upon facts of living that the love of things (not material things) bring forth a certain universal understanding,that when it comes to Ancient civilisations and there mythology,customs,languages,etc when one adopts an "holistic" comprehension of the people,then one recieves the same for which he/she seeks...
When one goes beyond his/her cultural identity and "travels" through the mind (the universe) he/she will see a universe within that brings all the myths alive and brings forth an love and understanding of the universe which goes beyond our european educations and we begin to initiate into what western psychology calls "the mysteries",which are no mysteries at all once we decide to embark upon our journey into "the holies of holies of reality" (smile).....
I really love your devotion into the Ancient things,Ancient black people have the story of this planet and all the answers to the healing of dis-harmonies which plague hu(e)-manity!!!
Sometimes it takes to just sit down and let things go in your life in order to comprehend the majesty of All in All (the universe) and this is what the Ancients did,they put the life,secrets and hurt and love in all they did,because it came from some place beyond where most people can travel today within themselves.......
For me,being an enlightened being through the knowledge of my Ancestors makes it personal and brings you to a level of understanding and wonderfulness that goes beyond the mere spoken word and the books and lectures,etc,etc!!!!
It turns you into a True Hu-Man-Being and it makes "yesterday","today" and its not the Knowledge that does it,its you and i that do it and the comprehending of the divinity an sacredness of ALL!!! A world that is created in all of us then brought forth into physical existance!!!
Its funny how the view of a thing may be altered,but true reality or better said,"TRUTH THAT LEADS TO REALITY" IS ALWAYS "ONE",IT CAN NEVER BE CHANGED,BUT "CHANGES" ALL THINGS!!!
Peace,Love and Joy in living to you and all......Robert (smile)
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Re: Any body scene those 7 original Coptic monuments in Ancient Askum Ethiopia???
Wed, August 30, 2006 - 11:12 AMVery interesting. We have a large Ethiopian community at our church. I'm always interested in what they have to say because it's usually from a very different point of view. -
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Re: Any body scene those 7 original Coptic monuments in Ancient Askum Ethiopia???
Wed, August 30, 2006 - 12:21 PMCareful here folks, the Ethopian Orthodox church is not in communion with the Eastern Orthodox. They are with the Coptics.
Many things sound good. But there is only one truth. Or, as a priest once told me, "the Copts have the light, but they have to get it from the Orthodox"
Meaning, at the Holy Sepulchure each Pascha, only the Orthodox bishop may go in the tomb and get his candle lit by the Holy Fire. He then comes out and shares the flame with the Copts and everyone else.
Through the years, others have tried to get the Holy Fire, but nobody else gets it. -
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Re: Any body scene those 7 original Coptic monuments in Ancient Askum Ethiopia???
Wed, August 30, 2006 - 12:34 PMTrue, true. They reject the council of Chalcedon...
I also know an Egyptian, who is Coptic, and whom I respect very much. Sometimes he gets into it with the Greeks, which is always interesting - especially on the subject of war. The Greeks revolted against Muslim rule, where the Copts never did...
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Re: Any body scene those 7 original Coptic monuments in Ancient Askum Ethiopia???
Thu, August 31, 2006 - 6:10 AMWhen I was first starting to check out the Orthodox church, I went to a Coptic church, because it was right up the street from me. It was a great church, and I really liked it. In fact, I almost became Coptic Orthodox until I found out about the Holy Fire. That convinced me. If I was going to become Orthodox, I might as well go to the source. I'm not sorry I did, but I do miss the Arabic chants, they are amazing.
BTW, I came into the Orthodox church after 20-some years of going to the Charismatic churches. I'm really glad to be out of that mess! -
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Re: Any body scene those 7 original Coptic monuments in Ancient Askum Ethiopia???
Thu, August 31, 2006 - 6:36 AMThere's only one Orthodox Church in my town, and it happens to be Greek. Not that it really matters, but I have become accustomed to the Greek chanting. Since the next closest Orthodox parish is about 70 miles away, it tends to be more pan-Orthodox. Some people might say this is a bad thing because it tends to dilute the unique cultural traditions from the homeland, but it also provides a wider perspective and a chance to join in the traditions of other cultures - Russian, Albanian, Romanian, etc. -
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Re: Any body scene those 7 original Coptic monuments in Ancient Askum Ethiopia???
Fri, September 1, 2006 - 10:44 PMOh dear; "They get the light from the orthodox"? Wow. You are referring to the Coptic churches that have preserved their faiths for the last two thousand years with nest to no aid from the orthodox. I mean the amount of hubris that some clergy posess never ceases to amaze me. Regardless of the prejudice ingrained in any given person by their heirarchy I would point out that the title and stated purose of this tribe is eastern Christian spirituality which is certainly not the sole province of the orthodox. So let's refrain from denigrating other peoples traditions bcause their bishops didn't agree with our in the first millenia. -
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Re: Any body scene those 7 original Coptic monuments in Ancient Askum Ethiopia???
Fri, September 1, 2006 - 10:49 PMFurther concerning the "Holy Fire" unless there is some sort of sinificance to the candle burning next to the tomb that I am unaware of the reason the orthodox are only allowed to go in thee is because the own the sepulcher and deny everyone else access. Which by the way even the Catholics don't do. It's just a way to snub the other churches who have historical claims; the armenians and Copts I think, though I may be missing someone. -
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Re: Any body scene those 7 original Coptic monuments in Ancient Askum Ethiopia???
Sun, September 3, 2006 - 4:08 PMWell, I certainly don't want to snub anybody, but the Orthodox don't own the sepulchure, the Muslims own it since the Ottomans took it over. The Muslims keep the keys to the thing.
As far as the holy fire only coming to the Orthodox goes, it has been tried for other groups to go in, but they come out with nothing. Here is a quote on that:
Every time heterodox have tried to obtain the Holy Fire they have failed. Three such attempts are known. Two occured in the twelfth century when priests of the Roman church tried to force out the Orthodox church but by their own confession these ended with God's punishment. But the most miraculous event occured in the year 1579, the year when God clearly testified to whom alone may be given His miracle.
"Once the Armenians (monophysites - ed.) paid the Turks, who then occupied the Holy Land, in order to obtain permission for their Patriarch to enter the Holy Sepulchre, the Orthodox Patriarch was standing sorrowfully with his flock at the exit of the church, near the left column, when the Holy Light split this column vertically and flashed near the Orthodox Patriarch.
A Muslim Muezzin, called Tounom, who saw the miraculous event from an adjacent mosque, immediately abandoned the Muslim religion and became an Orthodox Christian. This event took place in 1579 under Sultan Mourad IV, when the Patriarch of Jerusalem was Sophrony IV.(The above mentioned split column still exists. It dates from the twelfth century. The Orthodox pilgrims embrace it at the "place of the split" as they enter the church).
You can read the rest of it at: www.holyfire.org/eng/
Let us know what you think of it. -
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This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.
Re: Any body scene those 7 original Coptic monuments in Ancient Askum Ethiopia???
Tue, September 5, 2006 - 10:53 AMAre you saying that the Almighty old testament style struck down a bishop with some sort of divine wrath?
Flashy. -
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Re: Any body scene those 7 original Coptic monuments in Ancient Askum Ethiopia???
Tue, September 5, 2006 - 3:42 PMNo. The Armenian bishop was IN the sepulcure, waiting for the fire. The Orthodox bishop was outside, holding a candle. The Holy Fire came out of the tomb, past the Armenian bishop, hit the pillar, and lit the Orthodox bishop's candle. Nobody was hurt, just a miracle to show who gets the Holy Fire. -
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Re: Any body scene those 7 original Coptic monuments in Ancient Askum Ethiopia???
Tue, September 5, 2006 - 8:41 PMOh good for a second there I thought we had descended into a sort of Greek wrath of God . Nice to know that the God of my fathers is merely bitchy in his demonstrations of eclesiastical superiority and not destructive. -
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Re: Any body scene those 7 original Coptic monuments in Ancient Askum Ethiopia???
Wed, September 6, 2006 - 4:07 AMNot exactly how I would describe the Lord, and I don't think the Fathers would either. But, this is the USA and you are entitled to your opinion and free speech, at least in this life.
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Re: Any body scene those 7 original Coptic monuments in Ancient Askum Ethiopia???
Wed, September 6, 2006 - 12:42 PMBoth the Eastern Orthodox Church and the Non-Chalcedonian Church maintain that they are the one true church... this isn't just the belief of a hardline fringe, but a central dogma for both churches. If a member of either of these churches denies this, they have passed into heretical territory from their church's perspective. So I don't see much purpose in getting sarcastic or flippant when these beliefs are expressed on this forum. -
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Re: Any body scene those 7 original Coptic monuments in Ancient Askum Ethiopia???
Wed, September 6, 2006 - 6:16 PMTheologians in Eastern Chruches are a hardline fringe because as you so astutely point out anyone dissenting from the non salvum ex ecclessium schtick that the hierarchy puts forth. There is no room in the Eastern Churches for dissent. We just wander off and start a new church or persecute the heresy into non existence. The problem with saying that you have the truth is that that makes everyone else a liar, ignorant, or some combination of the two. Which is probably why the Churches seldom collude on anything of real imortance these days. Also there is something decidedly bitchy about he Omnipotent Lord of All passing over one candle to go to another; which one would think woud have resulted in a mass conversion to Orthodoxy. -
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Re: Any body scene those 7 original Coptic monuments in Ancient Askum Ethiopia???
Wed, September 6, 2006 - 6:30 PMIt seems to me like they are only hardliner on the core Truthes. Like the Trinity, like the Incarnation/Christology. Without some sort of hardline, you end up with complete disintegration, pluralism, and chaos, as seen in the Protestant ranks today. They don't even know what they believe anymore. -
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Re: Any body scene those 7 original Coptic monuments in Ancient Askum Ethiopia???
Thu, September 7, 2006 - 9:31 PMDogma is about interpretation. It atates that this interpretation arrived at this point in history is the correct one. And the Eastern Churches are extremely conservative and hardline on social issues not just esoteric metaphysics.
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Re: Any body scene those 7 original Coptic monuments in Ancient Askum Ethiopia???
Wed, September 6, 2006 - 9:42 PMThe dogmas of the church are held to be divine revelation, not the whim of human hierarchy, so of course there's no dissent. If they are not divinely revealed then the whole tradition of the church consists of the opinions of different people throughout history that we can pick and choose from, not a living tradition with real spiritual force. Persecuting heretics is another issue, and of course that's deplorable, but with regards those in the church, the whole point of a church is for its members to share the same faith and worship in the same way, and encourage each other only the way. From this perspective, proclaiming the truth doesn't "make" other people ignorant or liars, because, if it is indeed the truth, it is not a human fabrication.
Dogma is inescapable- I find that people who claim to reject dogma just have their own unexamined dogmas. Dogmas are necessary if people are to have any kind of common religious experience. "Non-dogmatic" translates into bland and "safe" worship of something ill-defined. -
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Re: Any body scene those 7 original Coptic monuments in Ancient Askum Ethiopia???
Thu, September 7, 2006 - 5:15 AMFolks, we can discuss who is the true church all day long. Nobody will change anybody's mind.
The historical facts are just that, facts.
Here's a quick rundown:
Jesus Christ lived on the earth, died, and rose again from the dead
He set up His church using the 12 Apostles as the first elders/bishops/whatever you call them
This church exists today, with an unbroken line of sucession.
Here is what is debatable:
The original church could be the Roman catholics, the Copts (and other Oriental Orthodox), or the Orthodox, but it cannot be all of them.
God may very well accept all of them (and I hope that is true)
Here is what each of us must decide for ourselves:
I have one life to live, and one chance at eternal salvation. Which Church am I going to throw my lot in with as my guide?
It is a very important decision, almost as important as the decision of how I am going to live my life. It is my sincere hope that all of us make a decision that leads us to true fellowship with our Lord, and a place with the saved in His kingdom. -
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Re: Any body scene those 7 original Coptic monuments in Ancient Askum Ethiopia???
Fri, September 8, 2006 - 5:18 AMThere is a really interesting discussion on the possibility of intercommunion between EO and OO here: www.monachos.net/forum/showthread.php
The imput of Athanasius Abdullah, a Coptic Orthodox, is particularly interesting.
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