Originally posted under :
Ancient Western View - John the Baptist finger - looks like a Buddhist symbol
@ the Reiki tribe.

BY: Charles (Core) And, Dave

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Thu, May 26, 2005 - 8:09 PM
Ancient Western View - John the Baptist finger - looks like a Buddhist symbol

New Picture posted.

This picture is very intresting its described as the inner stars.
Looks very familiar.

Re: Ancient Western View - John the Baptist finger - looks like a Buddhist symbol

Prehaps a symbol of power!

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Re: Ancient Western View - John the Baptist finger - looks like a Buddhist symbol

Great pic Dave! :-) Thanks for sharing. I've recently been considering where the spiral would start. That's a good mapping. Was the spiral there in the original or did you add that? Anyways yes... quite interesting. In the Japanese (eastern) teachings there weren't chakras but the hara system. I also find it interesting that the Tibetan system has 5 energy centers, 5 element, etc..

www.chironreiki.com.au/the_hara.html

peace,
charlie

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Re: Ancient Western View - - looks like a Buddhist symbol

Very interestingly actually Charles, i began super imposing the symbol about 12 months ago while channeling some info.

To my amazement just the other day i came across the picture as is on the Web. Can't remember who drew it.

It is also a very intresting way to move energy. : )
Ive only used the reiki symbol for this.
And it must have been used for this purpose across the West and East.

What contact did Buddism have in the West?
Or Western Philosophy have in the East?

Which sect of Buddism does the power symbol come from?

I would guess that the line on the reiki power symbol continues to the higerself? and makes a left hand turn ? into GOD(source)? hehehe

The similarities unfortunately finish with the basic visual spirial.

This Western depiction doesn't depict the Hara line/ spine/ dural tube? And also rotates the other way? Why? Different purpose, one for charging one for cleanseing? And no connection to the source, just to the crown.

I'll have another look on the Web.

John the Baptist finger is also very intresting as was explained in the Di Vincie Code what ever it was, any way the bible depicts John the Baptist pointing two fingers to the sky, this is also prevalant in pictures of his followers.

Tibetan system has 5 energy centers, 5 element, etc..
These are different to the TCM elements arn't they?

Also that is intresting about the Hara originally being in the Original system of healing, so when was it picked up by the other cultural influenses.

Unconditional Love and Light
Dave.

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Re: Ancient Western View - - looks like a Buddhist symbol

Well the power symbol pops up all over the place from North American rock art (petroglyphs) to Japanese Buddhist temples to spiraling galaxies in outer space.

I believe that sometime after Hawayo Takata's death in 1980 all of the masters she attuned got together and exchanged symbols only to find a lot of differences. Confusion arose and people branched off. Since spiritual energy is a universal concept many people applied the existing popularity of the 7 chakra system, the concepts of the auric field, etc to the system of Reiki healing. I don't think there's anything wrong with this. Anyways I assume sometime between 1937 and 1980 these various new pieces were fit in to fill a void in Takata's teachings or the Western understanding of energy. Also during the 70's and 80's Tibet was seen as the ancient source of spiritual knowledge and so a lot of 'Tibetan' influences were mixed into the pot. I think in the end it might be good to evolve the art of healing into something more universal combining the knowledge of all cultures. But to call this system Reiki would be a misnomer.

I'm not sure what you mean about what contact Buddhism has in the West? The power symbol might have come from Tendai Buddhism although it's been said that it comes from the Sutras. It's also helpful to note that in the West we call it the power symbol however in Japan it is the Earth symbol. Power is one of the attributes of Earth energy.

I've heard various opinions on the direction of the symbol. Clockwise to put energy in and counter-clockwise to take too much energy out. Although in traditional Reiki healing methods I am not aware of the Master attempting to move energy here or there based on their intuition. Reiki goes where it's needed in the amount that is required. Reiki does not come from the practioner but from the source of all things.

I think the John the Baptist finger is a mudra of some sort. Although I'm not aware of this in the Japanese teachings. There were various mudras in Christianity some of which are still used by priests or in the er... mind failure... some branches of Catholicism use them. I want to say Byzantine? They put the forefinger, middle finger, and thumb together forming the trinity when they make the sign of the cross.

I think what we're coming to find out is that all that matters is the intention. In the book I'm reading currently (<u>The Reiki Sourcebook</u> by Bronwen and Frans Stiene) they say that the symbols and mantras were not even part of Usui's original teachings. These came about later to help people who had no concept of energy... sort of "training wheels" which could be discarded later on.

In the West we seem to have the idea that symbols have power and that the more symbols you know the more power you can get. This contradicts Usui's teachings and the concept of Reiki as a universal spiritual energy. I think a lot of the focus shifting to symbols and mantras comes from Wicca.

What does TCM stand for?

peace,
charlie


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Re: Ancient Western View

I found a copy of the picture it is on what appears to be a French Tantra website

www.vadayatantra.net/approch.....ifique.html

I also found 2 more pics, one with the Power symbol described as
Kundalini intersecting the star of David.
And another with Chakra's which is intresting how many Chakra's or deities are about the head of person?

TCM
Traditional Chinese Medicine

What language is written on it the wetern pic? Latin?
PLATO'S TIMAEUS also talks about the inner stars

Unconditional Love and Light
Dave


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Re: Ancient Western View

I just translated the site with Google language tools since I don't speak French very well. It's actually very good... I recommend reading the translation. Here's an excerpt:

"From time immemorial, the human being raised the question of the nature and the origin of cosmos; only the context of research and the methods employed change to arrive to satisfactory answers. By definition, science melts its research on observations, and resorts to experimental methods, to obtain verifiable data. It is the field of knowledge, founded on empirical facts, diametrically opposed a posteriori to the field of knowledge a priori. Paradoxically, the empirical and intuitive disciplines have a common denominator: both transcend appearances of the phenomenal world and penetrates in the unknown to reveal the mysteries of the universe. These two methods were applied in old India. Certain proposals were drawn from the experimental method: the facts were observed, the examples subjected to attentive analyses, and their results checked by empirical means."

I'll take a peek at your new images... I think the language in the pic is actually french. Although Latin in origin...

peace,
charlie

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Re: Ancient Western View - - looks like a Buddhist symbol

Dave,

I translated a bit of the image. I've uploaded it here:

penguinppc.org/~core/imag...ncient_western_view.jpg

I couldn't read some of the other words. Hope that helps..

peace,
charlie

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Re: Ancient Western View - - looks like a Buddhist symbol

LHomme Terrestre Naturel Tenebreaux
The Man Terrestrial Natural Dark

Stlon Les et Les
Stlon them and the

Etoiles Elements
Stars Elements

Can't find the meaning of Stlon? I've seen it attached to other words.

Dark, ? 90% of the universe is Dark matter.

From what i think this european depiction is some sort of Chakra / macro in the micro cosmic orbit. But has stricking resemblance to the Power symbol. Which spirals in the opposit direction, mind you i've seen the eastern power symbol depicted in this spiral as well.

I would really like to understand the thinking fully.

Unconditional Love and Light
Dave

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Re: Ancient Western View - - looks like a Buddhist symbol

Charles(core),

Found it!

occult-advances.org/greatwork.shtml

Androgynous Azoth by Johann Georg Gichtel (1638 - 1710)
Johann had partially understood the Great Work (Androgyny = Male/Female = Yang/yin, Spiral, Chakras, ...).
Yet, the Tree of life is lacking, introducing a wrong spiral succession:
Saturn -->Moon -->Jupiter
instead of the classical alchemical succession :
Saturn-->Jupiter-->Moon
Nor any representation of the alchemical elements succession :
Water -->Air-->Fire-->Earth
Nor the color change of the philosophical stone :
Black -->White-->Red-->Golden
in relation with the spiral succession and alchemical seasons...

Unconditional Love and Light
Dave

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Re: Ancient Western View - - looks like a Buddhist symbol

Dave,

A very cool and interesting find... I'm feeling to lazy to read through it all presently as I'm still using all my subconscious to chew on the tasty goodness which was Exploring the Labyrinth by Nevill Drury... remind me sometime and I'll look again. After a quick scan it does merit interest. Especially the spiral map and the directional flow although I have my own interpretations similar though different.

peace,
charlie

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Re: Ancient Western View - - Azoth

Azoth, is made up of :

Water/Air : Mercury
Fire : Sulfur
Earth : Salt

This was supposed to be the ultimate alchemic cure.
I think prehaps metaphysical alchemicists may have been on to something, working directly with the elements with the body. As in other cultures. I will post another revalent picture depicting the elements as triangles.

It appears that the Jewish culture came accross the Power symbol at soem time? or the other way?
I think prehaps it would be a good idea to get the opion of someone who has a good knowledge of the Kabalistic traditions.

I might invite someone to have alook at what we have found.

Unconditional Love and Light
Dave